Lisa Campbell  
Welcome to Part Two of our podcast highlighting the writing talents of our current Tennessee Poet Laurette Margaret Britton Vaughn. During a recent interview, the poet regaled us with tales of her Southern childhood, growing up during a time that was unabashedly patriotic. Timely even now, and perhaps even more so, we revisit her poems’ themes of democracy, freedom, prejudices, patriotism, family, and the importance of advocating for others. We begin with a reading of a poem about the flag, and then rejoin our conversation in progress. Come along with us as we catch up with Maggie Britton Vaughn.

Ron Campbell
The Whip of the Flag, by Magaret Britton Vaughn (America Showing her Colors in Black and White)

The whip of the flag in the wind,
The snap of heels to attention,
The clink of a glass to a toast,
The crack of a bat at the game,
The tap of a shoe on the stage,
The chop of an ax to the wood,
The clop of a hoof on the road,
The bang of a book quickly shut,
The rip of material being sewn,
The strike of a clock in the hall,
The ring of a bell in the tower,
The clap of a hand of approval,
The pat on the back of a friend,
But the one sound I love the most
Is the whip of the flag in the wind.


Maggi Britton Vaughn
…I'll never forget one day when I was a child, my neighbor was talking to the other neighbor. And because we were all real close, and she said, I don't think the grass will ever grow in the backyard. And the other mother said, Yes, it will, when the children are grown. And that was only about eight years old. God put an image. Yeah. And I wrote the grass came back because of that, about playing marbles. Because you got to have Earth for there.

Lisa Campbell
Did you know your grandparents at all?

Maggi Britton Vaughn
Yes, I knew. My grandmother till I was about seven. She was a writer. And I didn't know this time. And at her death, we found manuscripts and things I had seen. And I had it bound like a book. She wrote poems. My granddaddy lived on a lot after her. And my grandmother had died in 1947. I can't remember when my grandaddy died, but it was years later. And he was such a storyteller. We would rock on the front porch. And we'd say tell us a story Granddaddy. And he started telling it. And we’d say now we've heard that one before, he’d say yes but not like I’m going to tell it now. Now my grandparents on my mother's my daddy’s side, because my dad had died when I was nine months old, so I wasn't as close to them. But I would go see them when we would come back to Tennessee. And they were all up in age too. They really lived to be elderly. And but I wasn't close to them. Like my, my grandparents on mom's side. When daddy died when I was nine months old. We were very close. . And I, I would live there at my grandmother's, my brother, I would be there lot. My mom was trying to work and support us. And we were very close. My grandmother, like I said, I think I said this was very sophisticated family and married that want to be a farmer. And that worked out well. It was fine. They loved each other. But she died when I was seven years old, in 1945. And he lived pretty good while after that, but my grandmother she's pretty liberal. I mean, she was educated.

Lisa Campbell
And she was a reader and a writer…

Maggi Britton Vaugh
She was she taught school. And I don't know. We were very close. You know, you don't know. I didn't know she was a writer. She never mentioned it. She didn't know I was going to be a writer. But there's a bond there that connects people. And you don't know why. And my cousin should just say, Well, you were her favorite. You know you were her favorite. And we were close. You got your Dad back?

Lisa Campbell
Hey, Dad. You were gonna ask her about tell her about the part of the book. When she got you.

Maggi Britton Vaughn
You there?

Lisa Campbell
Are you there? Can you hear us? Usually don't think so. But he said you had hie from the moment when you said your your mama smoked like Betty Grable. Great. Well. What are you waiting on have a good connection? Yeah, he said he she you had him when you said your mama could light a  cigarette like Betty Grable.

Maggi Britton Vaughn
That's right. Yeah. And walk around across the floor. Like some old si soon Hayward or Yes. Or somebody? Yeah. That mama that was that. Oh, mama was highly drama. Oh, oh, bless her heart. Mom had a 10th grade education. And, and she could be the at a party. She could be the clown. But then she loved to dress up. And we didn't have any money. She had maybe one dressy outfit. And she'd hold that cigarette. You know, you'd think she was a Betty Grable or Rita Hayworth or somebody that’s the way mom acted. You know, I never knew what what she was going to be one day a reader or a comic, you know, but she was a wonderful mama and supported us. And worked her whole life to put food on the table.

Lisa Campbell
Well, we can certainly relate to a good mama and a good Daddy. 

Maggi BRITTON Vaughn
Mama was something else she. But she would narrow her eyes when she was upset with you. And I write about that, and one of my book, Mama narrowed her eyes and I'm putting that in my autobiography. Look at you like that. I'll never forget one Thanksgiving. We were poor. And maybe we had a turkey once a year on Thanksgiving could afford it. And we got ready to sit down to dinner, when we heard on the radio, that there was a poor family that didn't have any food. And mom said, Get the car. We're gonna take our food over there and give it to him. And we did. And we came back. And we had bologna sandwiches. And I said, well, no turkey. She said, no, it's over there. And I said, why we better go over there and eat. I always knew when that mom was upset with me with those eyes. But I had a great childhood.

Lisa Campbell
Well, in your childhood, did you ever imagine? What would you what would you have imagined? If someone said when you grew up, you're going to be the poet laureate? Would you have ever known what that meant?

Maggi Britton Vaughn
I would have said was that? I just knew I was going to be a writer.

Lisa Campbell
And you shared with me that, I think you said you've written poems for every one of the Tennessee's governors since then, is that right? 

Maggi Britton Vaughn
Every Governor four or five governors, I've written the official inaugural poem and have presented it at the last one I didn't because I was sick. Or something for some reason, or it may have been snow or I can't reason. Remember, trying to remember, but it's always been in the program, printed on the back. 

Lisa Campbell
Do you have one that you remember specifically that you enjoyed?

Maggi Britton Vaughn
Well, I love them all. Sundquist was probably the best to me, and that he used me all the time. At that time, the Bicentennial was under his time. And he wrote the official Bicentennial poem. Several polls I've written under him that they became the official poems for the state. I can't remember how many I can't remember what they…

Lisa Campbell
You said you were very patriotic. What does that mean to you?

Maggi Britton Vaughn
Well I love old glory.  Just had that book. What did I do with it?

Lisa Campbell
Is that something that you just have always been drawn to? 

Maggi Britton Vaughn
Oh yes, I've always been drawn to the flag all my life. This is all patriotism. I was telling your, sister, I went all over the United States when I was traveling, trying to find the picture for this book. When there were flags and all around, but I couldn't find what I wanted. And I was in Shelbyville, which is our county seat at a parade. And it was a float with the Boy Scouts on it. And I thought well, I'll just snap a picture of them just for fun. Honey, I walked up and they snapped to attention started saluting me and I snapped it. And that is right out of Norman Rockwell. I'm not kidding, the little feet where they're going and the little hat and hands. And I said there's a picture for America, in all her colors. 

There's a poem in here that I'm going to continue. I just haven't had time or just I don't know if it's the flag telling her history. It's about 13 pages. And I need to update it. (The latest history) is the latest that's going on. Yeah, right. But I, like I say there's a picture. Someone washed the flag and hung it on the line. I love that. You know, a lot of people with a lot of people say well, they shouldn't have done that. But you know what? This was out in the country, how wonderful. They would think enough to wash it, wash it and hang it out, you know? And so I don't know it's just I, I'm just so patriotism. This is called the Whip of the flag. Or patriotic instead f patriotism I said, 

The Whip of the Flag, by Magaret Britton Vaughn (America Showing her Colors in Black and White)

The whip of the flag in the wind,
The snap of heels to attention,
The clink of a glass to a toast,
The crack of a bat at the game,
The tap of a shoe on the stage,
The chop of an ax to the wood,
The clop of a hoof on the road,
The bang of a book quickly shut,
The rip of material being sewn,
The strike of a clock in the hall,
The ring of a bell in the tower,
The clap of a hand of approval,
The pat on the back of a friend,
But the one sound I love the most
Is the whip of the flag in the wind.


I have a hard time seeing, in this house I don't have enough light on. I sit in the dark most of the time. But this is all patriotism. Acres that Grow Stones is about the cemeteries and I don't know if we have time for that one or not. 

But okay, it's called Acres That Grow Stones.  This is one of my favorite poems. 


Acres That Grow Stones, by Magaret Britton Vaughn (America Showing her Colors in Black and White)

All alike I see them there, 
By thousands they have grown;
We see them pushing from the earth, 
These acres that grow stones.
Seeds of death we planted there
After the soul is sown.
Concrete flowers lie in row,
These acres that grow stones.
Men that wore the blue and gray
From eighteen sixty-four,
Uniforms of two world wards
Decorate the sleeping floor.
Granite with faded names
Among them marked unknown;
Grass covers all the same,
These acres that grow stones.
This is what America cost,
This is what we paid.
Count the many markers
So the flag could always wave.
Sacred soil we set aside,
Ground Old Glory owns.
America’s greatest debt today,
These acres that grow stones.
For stars and stripes they paid it all;
Let’s not forget the loan.
God’s garden called freedom,
These acres that grow stones.

I'm very patriotic. Man, I love that flag. And anybody I see making, trying to harm it, man I whip with their butt. I don't know. I'm just I was born. patriotic. Protect. Yeah.

Lisa Campbell
Yeah, that's kind of my version of running for office. You know, are you going to protect this place? To protect our country or each other? 

Maggi Britton Vaughn
So many people today are nuts. 

Lisa Campbell
They're not kind. They're not? Yeah, looking out for other people. I think that's one of the things that is, you know, there's all this pushback against diversity. But that's always been our greatest strength.

Maggi Britton Vaughn
And it's, it's, I watch them on TV, because I don't go out much. So I watch the news all the time. And they it's not like they love America. That I mean, if there's anything crazy they can do they do it. And the politics now. It's based out of Washington.

Lisa Campbell
In the name of America, you know, it's in word only at this point. For many of them, I think.

Maggi Britton Vaughn
And it’s got so hateful.  And growing up if you didn't care for a president, you know, you may say, Oh, I wish so and so had one. But today they assassinate him with words. I don't know. I don't understand. It's like we're not America anymore. I mean, used to be patriotism.

Lisa Campbell
Well, what you just said, “assassinate with words” to me is so profound. Because we have the power to do the opposite.  And which you've been doing your whole life, connecting with words, you know, motivating with words inspiring with words, we can lift people up, but we were I mean, and the really the distinct power of words, to be able to tell your own story,

Maggi Britton Vaughn
Your story and tell where people understand and relate to it. Yeah. I mean, when I was growing up, patriotism was there. I mean, after the Second World War, and during the war, I could remember, even though I was a small child, the patriotism the flag, the war. I used to ride the train a lot, because we didn't, one time didn't have a car. And I'd go back from Gulfport to Tennessee back and forth on the train a little girl. And I'd sit with the soldiers. And Mama will be on there with me. But she didn't have to worry about anything. I mean,I was their little sister that they left behind, you know, and talk to me. And I don't know, that was just, we were flag wavers back then. Now they burn the flag. If we had burned the flag when I was growing up, well you would have been in prison? I don't understand it. The patriotism is gone.

Lisa Campbell
Well, I just respect each other. Yeah. And that flag is our shared community together. And I think, you know, I absolutely believe in the right to have a different opinion. (I do too.)  But that's different than being disrespect.

Maggi Britton Vaughn
We didn't burn the houses down and the flag. We didn't burn the flag back then; we waived it. And, of course, I can remember when with 48 states. Today, we're 50. And probably will be adding on some more at one time or another. I don't know where we'll see. Yeah, yeah. They're thinking about that. I, I don't know. It's just, it seems like the Senate has gone crazy.

Lisa Campbell
Just the blocking things, we used to be “for” things.

Maggi Britton Vaughn
And it used to be patriotism.

Lisa Campbell  What did you What did you think of Amanda Gorman, the poet?

Maggi Britton Vaughn
She's wonderful. She is wonderful! She's amazing. We need more like that on fire!

Maggi BRITTON Vaughn
Yes. Yes. She will do great things--she's already done great. And you understand her? That is, the main thing that poets need to learn is, if people don't understand what you're saying, they're not going to buy your book or listen to you. And if you're writing for the page, words on the page, that's the angles and things. They're not what they want. They want to hear what they understand, and what they love. And not something they have to go to the dictionary to look up. And like I say, country music. Country music has done that through the years.  It took a while for some of these uppity people to start liking it. But boy when they did, they, you know, when I was in high school, there was only two of us that loved country music down in Gulfport the rest of them were not in the country music. And they made fun of us, the two of us, and years later. And when they call around the country music, they say, Oh, Maggie, tell us about country music, you know, because they knew I was writing it. And I said, Well, you know, I've tried to tell you about it in the 50s. But you laughed at me. I mean, you know, country music tells it like it is. And it's gotten people through crisis. Divorce. I mean, it just writes life.

Lisa Campbell  
I would love for you to read one more poem, if you would?

Maggi Britton Vaughn  
Well, what do you want me to read? 

Lisa Campbell  
Well, is there another one in the patriotism?

Maggi Britton Vaughn
I'm sure there you see a lot of pictures in here. I'm real patriotic. Like I say. Well, I wrote about the veterans here too. We used to have a home here they lived in and I made a lot of pictures in this road rage acres. I read the whip of the flag. There's Garrison Keillor.

Let me tell you a story about that. Okay. Yes, I may be going on too long. But you can always edit. Yes. Every year we have a thing in Nashville. You may go to the book festival. And I did it every year had my booth and I spoke. And it was one critic there every year. And he didn't he didn't pay any attention to me. He was into all this academic, you know, right. And Garrison Keillor got up and talked about me. He was the main speaker from the big auditorium there at Memorial; got up and talked about me the time he was there. Make sense? Yes. Honey, that critic ran to my booth. 

All of a sudden, I was paying attention on the way I'm talking about you. I said he did. No, I mean, I didn't spend much time with talking to him because I thought, oh my god, it takes somebody to brag on you to talk about you to do it first. Yeah. So are you familiar with the Carter family. Yes. Okay. Welll AP Carter started really the founder of country music up in Virginia Hilton's for dinner. Will Jeanette Carter, there's Jeanette, okay. That's AP’s daughter, okay. Marty Stewart brought her into the Ryman Auditorium for a one woman concert. 

And there was a girl from New York that used to help me edit and have misspelled words and punctuate still can't do that. And I went, and she did what all good southerners do at the end of the show, and she talked like this, “We’ll y'all come see me now.” And we came back home to Nashville. And the next day I said, Let's go see her. And she said, that would be great. She, my editor was near Buffalo, New York. So I call Jeanette. I got her number and called her. And I said, Jeanette, I said, This is Maggie Britton Vaughn, Poet Laureate in Tennessee. And I heard you, you're wonderful. I grew up in country music, I write it, I would love to come meet you. And she said, well, okay. I got her address everything. And I hung up. I said, What Kara? She didn't sound too excited about it. She's, well, that's some people just don't get excited. And so we got in the car in a day or two and went, and she met me at the front door. And I said, Jeanette, she said, Well, I talked to Johnny about you. That was her son in law Johnny Cash. I talk to Johnny about you. And he heared of view and said she was mighty fine. And boy from then on, I was in, I went to see her I don't know how many times and she treated me like family. Her whole family did. She has passed since passed away. But there's her picture. She played the autoharp and she that voice never got above this. And she does a thing or did a thing and they still had it called the Carter Fold. They every Saturday night they played the old country music and he said like what old tin building barn in nature have you been there? I haven't been well you need to go it's in Hilton's Virginia was she called Po Valley. This is called The Carter Fold.  

The Carter Fold, by Magaret Britton Vaughn (America Showing her Colors in Black and White)

Like the mountain streams,
songs of love and hardship
trickled down through mineraled rocks
and earthy crevices
to Maces Springs , where
A.P. Carter collected the
ballads and jigs that described
a way of life that 
America notched into
homemade banjos and fiddles.
that tradition lives on 
at the Carter Fold,
where the familiar timbre
of remembered voices still lingers
as descendants of the Carter family
continue to sing the mountain lore
that has sifted through time 
and weathered its musical journey.

I just love her. (It comes through in the poem.)  I mean, it kind of, you know, I just I mean, she she was unbelievable. One weekend one was when we were there, we used to go see her all the time, a terrible storm was brewing. And it was time for us to leave, and to come home. And she said, you can't leave in this weather. We said, We got to we got to get back. No, you staying with me tonight. And we said, No, we're gonna we're gonna go back. And so she called her daughter Rita, who now runs the Carter Fold okay. I said, they're here. They're gonna leave, they can't leave and revisit send them over here. And I'll talk to him. So we went over to see Rita. And Rita you said, you can't leave, he said, I've got the key to Tom T. Hall’s house.  He had a small house there. I'm putting you there. So we spent the night so the next time I saw Tom T, I said, Honey, I said your bed last night, or like a couple of nights ago. And he cracked up lived. He's a you spend the night anytime you want to there. He was really good to me. He really believed in me. 

Maggi Britton Vaughn 
He was, he was just, I mean, he just the writer he was he was genius. But he thought I was genius. And he said, Maggi your writing his genius. And I said NO YOU'RE the genius. (And I love that.) But he was really wonderful to me. All of them I can say Mini Pearl was like a mother encouraged me to move here because of the arts and things going on and Bell Buckle. She knew I could make it. Mama didn't speak to him before ever. Here’s Uncle Sam for me standing under a big statute.

Lisa Campbell
Where was that?

Maggi Britton Vaughn 
I have no idea but you traveled all over the country. I got to set the standards go heavy on my right there. Well, you've had a really interesting life and well so many friends and fans and I've been lucky creative diversion.

Maggi Britton Vaughn
I've made a living doing this.

Lisa Campbell
A lot of people want to and can't.

Maggi Britton Vaughn 
I put mom in the hospital. When I said I quit my job. I mean, she just couldn't believe it. But there's been hard times, but you know I’ll sell something about people coming in Boston from me. Yeah. Well, I would like to buy a couple months would I'll give you I've written about 21 I don’t have them all—some are  out of print. My Grand Ole Opry was out of print. And everybody's wondering that one. I've got to reprint it. I called the last time I did Grand Ole Opry.

Lisa Campbell
I was there for the 70th anniversary. Yeah. They just celebrated. Close to 100. I think.

Maggi Britton Vaughn
Yeah, they have. Yeah, yes. Unbelievable. Well, what did you do?

Lisa Campbell
I was in marketing and advertising when I was there, I enjoyed working there.  I was about 25.

Maggi Britton Vaughn
Who was the woman before you?

Lisa Campbell
Well, there was a woman named Karen Groom and the guy that was ran. 

Maggi Britton Vaughn 
I think it was Karen that was the woman that I knew. And she was so good to me. She got me into everything. You know, and I was backstage every Saturday Night.  It was what was the young woman's name her Pam somebody?

Maggi Britton Vaughn
This woman was there before Opry land. Yeah. Well, she may have been there during the opera night. Um, but her office was in the old national life building. I say, Oh, I don't know who that is. I don't wish she was so good to me. And I knew my home that I loved.

Lisa Campbell
I mean, I enjoyed working there when I worked there. And I probably didn't know at the time I was so young. Like how amazing, amazing it was-the opportunity to meet so many amazing musicians but like go to dinner with little Jimmy Dickens or I meet Bill Monroe.

Maggi Britton Vaughn
Now Bill Monroe was difficult at times. He wanted it his way perfection and Roy Acuff, wanted it his way, wouldn't not allow any drums on the opry until after night. I knew I knew all the secrets and every day. Elvis Presley was like, oh, yeah, he only played it one time.

Lisa Campbell
But I always thought it was really just a neat because if you're invited to be a member, you have to come or you're supposed to like 12 times a year.  You just come and whenever you want. So whenever you show up if you're in the audience that you could...

Maggi Britton Vaughn
But it was more than 12 times, but when I was there, it was a lot. Yeah, heads show up. Carl and Pearl Butler, did you ever know them? Don't let me crossover, loves cheating line. So he died from the 70s. They were good friends of mine. And he had a huge hit on that. He was able to buy a farm or Franklin and he called it Crossover Acres. But they used to live in Nashville and a brick house they rented. And she worked at like the A&P and about midnight when she and I were sitting over steps outside. And he had gone to bed and he came to his window open could hear. And she said, you know, Maggi, and she named this girl that she worked with. She said, she's got a high school education and worked at the A&P Can you imagine? I said Pearl, I got a college education and I ain't got a job. Well, while we were hanging out, he fell out of the bed laughing and we thought he'd broken his arm. He was laughing so hard. And he never forgot that he always reminded me I said that, you know, but he did that. Don't let me cross over. He had a huge hit. (I don't think I know that)… loves cheating. And the girl that wrote it was a friend.

Laurie Pannell Campbell
Our dad has a big voice and loves to sing country music and gospel songs. 

Maggi Britton Vaughn 
So he and I would get along great. I know all the old gospel songs.

Lisa Campbell 
And that will make me cry. The old gospel songs. Oh, gosh,

Maggi Britton Vaughn
The good ones happy good months. Well, yes. Dottie Rambo. Oh, honey, she wrote hundreds of (I don't think I know) too much the game to lose. And oh, just I knew them all. And I can say he has a he brings him in every year. And I speak at it every year. But the gospel music say one song say more than a preacher ever could. And that's the truth.

Lisa Campbell 
Well, and sometimes when I start singing them, and I really start paying more attention to the words but I really didn't as a kid, I

Maggi Britton Vaughn
What were some of the ones you loved. 

Lisa Campbell 
Well, used to love that song. TRUST and OBEY...(singing) trust and obey...

Maggi Britton Vaughn
(singing)...But, there's no other way, to be happy in Jesus but to trust 

Lisa Campbell 
…that’s the one I like, obey? 

Laurie Campbell Pannell
Yeah, yeah. Because it starts out when we walk with

Maggi Britton Vaughn
Yeah. Obey that verse. I knew them all…

Lisa Campbell 
From stars and stripes to monuments and memories, Maggie Britton Vaughn uses the power of words and the cadence of poetry as an artistic language we can all understand to break down complex ideas and feelings into accessible thoughts and feelings that are often only understood through nonverbal arts such as music or painting. Poetry enables us to talk about life, relationships, freedom, country, and even politics in a way that crosses party lines, breaks down boundaries, and narrows disparities. We hope you enjoyed today’s episode of Politics & Poetry. Until next time, keep reading, keep learning, keep listening.